Posted by PS on April 21, 2004 at 14:43:35:
In Reply to: Re: Excellent observations posted by j on April 21, 2004 at 11:51:59:
J wrote:
: Phillipians 1:4-11
: "Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord; for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made comformable unto his death; if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead."
: In this statement, Paul demonstrates 1. the pointlessness of trusting in the flesh, 2. the pointlessness of trusting in 'righteousness through works,' 3. the ultimate fulfillment of true faith. Later Paul states (v. 17), "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample."
* * * * * * *
Again, great observation. And any spelling of example as "ensample" must be inspired. Or really dated. ;-)
Now ask yourself, what is it that Paul counted loss for Christ? His righteousness, not his lack of it. His blamelessness, not his guilt. In short, those things that were GAIN to him, not those that were worthless. Paul gave up success and power in the most holy sect of his nation, not a life of sin.
I know you've all been taught that, folks, but you can thank Augustine and Luther. It's not in the text. There are many other scriptures that bear this out. Go find them.
Disclaimer: I am not making any explicit conclusions that you are all really the children of satan, so don't y'all get your Fruit of the Lord Bible Hero underwear in an unholy wad that will need to be surgically removed. Jonah's already been swallowed by a whale and puked out so don't humiliate him further. You do not have to change your view of how God worked/works in your life or your precious wretchedness before God (before or after conversion). I'm just saying that we often don't understand what Paul is really saying because we are tainted by centuries-old traditions of misinterpretation.
So what is Paul saying?
And now, I will astound and amaze by coming back from the bunny trail...
"There's the path, Gretel!"
Once again, the original question was the central focus of Romans.
Hint: The discussion about the Law does not correlate to the Law discussion in Galatians--two totally different issues and audiences.
MORE BIG HINTS:
If you think you have it...
1. Compare it with Paul's prophetic message. Check out his revelation from God, beginning on the Damascus Road (look elsewhere than Acts 9 for 3 more accounts). Next, find Paul's accounts of the hidden "mystery" God made known to him and called him to reveal. (Don't get hung up on single verses out of context that feature the word mystery, though. Search for meaning.)
2. Does the Old Testament agree with your thesis? Both Father Abraham through the Psalms and the Prophets should be indisputably in harmony with it.
3. Does Jesus agree with your thesis? Remember Him? ;-)