Posted by Dave on July 12, 2005 at 15:15:01:
In Reply to: Re: However- posted by cav on July 12, 2005 at 05:03:03:
Ok. You caught me skimming. :-)
I had read most of your original post and skimmed through the others; I was responding to your questions/statements about suffering as it relates to God (theodicy).
My "out of the closet" comment was meant to be light-hearted. Thanks for your openness.
I guess I would list more things under the category "mystery" than you do. For instance, I don't see how anyone could say for certain that nothing happens by random chance. If, as you say, the term refers to "a set of variables that are too complex to discern," then how can you know that they aren't random since you can't discern them? Granted, the Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet's collision with Jupiter in 1994 was probably the end result of a very long line of complex variables that eventually caused the comet's trajectory to intersect with Jupiter's. Perhaps the comet had been nudged slightly off its course by a small asteroid two billion years ago, and had that not happened, it wouldn't have hit Jupiter in 1994. But the collision was still random as far as we can tell.
As for the tsunami question, I was merely giving one example of apparently random suffering--any other historical catastrophe would serve just as well. You say that preservation of life shouldn't be used as an indication of fairness or justness. But if the words "good" and "loving" are to have any meaning at all, they must remain relevant to human experience. The problem is that Jesus said some very specific things about the "good" nature of God, not least of which is this: "Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, ...they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!" (Luke 12:22-24 ) But the world is brimming over with examples of unfed ravens.
I think you sum up your position well with this: "We can research all the facts, we can study all the cases and examples, but in the end we will always reach some point where we must decide if we believe it or not." That is the great Kierkegaardian insight. Faith truly is a leap in the dark.
Dave