Posted by J on November 16, 2004 at 12:58:20:
In Reply to: My take on it -- not quite as long ;-) posted by PS on November 16, 2004 at 09:09:24:
Sic et non. (Yes and no.) I, like you, would disagree with too narrow or skewed an interpretation of "beating our bodies into subjection," etc. But regarding your apparent dismissal of the possibility of loss of salvation being Paul's meaning here, I am not so sure.
I am not dismissing the possibility, I am dismissing an attitude that this was the point of the scripture. He appears to be offering evidence to support his authority and more importantly, his love, with regards to the Corinthians. This is powerful message!
Sorry to throw a wrench in the gears. ;-)
No problem - the context of your response indicates that you want to help push me to grow!
I would also bet you are using a theological work like Vines Expository Dictionary or the like.)
I just used my plain NKJV Bible and Strong's Concordance (with a KJV bible once to grab "castaway" which is how it is listed in the Strong's).
My purpose in looking these words up was merely to get some perspective and not just accept the word that the translators chose.
This is easy to do, and I would encourage anyone to take the time, but as PS states, keep in mind that what you find must be looked at as a "possibility" as opposed to dyed-in-the-wool fact (sometimes ;-).
: Now here is context: Would athletic (Olympic) metaphors have central themes of hiddenness and unclearness? I doubt it; there's no apparent connection I can see. Such metaphors must have apparent meanings that all hearers can relate to or they are useless. The preferred translation "uncertainty" makes much more sense in an athletic context, especially seen in terms of lack of commitment or half-hearted action. If Paul juxtaposes temperance/discipline with uncertainty, there must be a connection in the athletic context that is clear.
The runner of a race has a very clear goal - to win. That goal is clearly laid out in the race as the finish line and the prize / crown (although perishable). My understanding of the additional words helps me to better understand the meaning of "uncertainty" used here. As I now understand it, uncertainty can be likened to "not being completely committed to the goal." It could also be "committed to two goals and undecided as to which goal to fully pursue." I did not get this at my first read - I immediately associated "uncertainty" with "doubt." I'll give you one guess as to why... ;-) It was only after looking the words up that gave me this understanding.
The preceding was just offered as an example of the flaws of "word studies." My main point was the one first presented at top. :-)
I agree that as you said, "Greek word studies will lead you astray much of the time," and this should be kept in mind as words are reviewed. I do think, however, that meanings can be clarified, especially when our understandings might have been tainted by expository teaching - or anything else, for that matter.
J