Posted by cav on March 31, 2005 at 03:52:36:
In Reply to: androgeny and gender issues... posted by giveawayboy on March 30, 2005 at 12:38:05:
Great direction. I love it when posts spawn other posts. As for myself, I wouldn't call it androgeny per se, as that makes me think of blurring the differences between sexes, as crossing the lines. I think maybe this is what you are getting at. I like it too. I think there is something really cool when a guy can wear a skirt and look like a guy in a skirt. It has a lot to do with attitude, and physical carriage. I also think it's really sexy when a girl wears guys clothes in certain styles (I hate suits). To go a little deeper, I know a little about clothing design since my mom runs a sewing school. And I have long recognized how traditionally "female" cuts and techniques, such as darts, and certain waisting techniques can really work on a man with the right frame. I mean, on a Tim Ogden type build, forget it, but on a Marcos, or Jason type, they can really highlight that masculinity in a cross line sort of way. The gothic style often makes use of these tricks.
And since you mentioned Brad Pitt, I like him alot. In as much as he is a pretty decent actor with a lot of range, and personally he has this great "who cares" attitude. I remember when he did a magazine shoot wearing dresses and skirts. He really didn't look gay at all. And his face said, "yeah, I'm in a dress...so what." He does commercials in Japan, and he always speaks Japanese. With a great accent I might add. Even Di Caprio didn't do that. I'm not sure if he actually knows the language, but the presentation in the ad is that he is speaking to Japanese in their own language. That goes a long way here, and really gains respect in my book.
For my part, I've already said I use female designs in my custom clothes, but I also buy women's clothes when they fit the look I need and I don't think anyone who saw me ever thought I was wearing something that looked gay, did they? (Tell me if so, I need the feedback.) I bet most people never even knew it. Sometimes it didn't work. I did this one alteration on a shirt based on a Japanese design I saw. It laced up the chest and had a wide circular neck, but the cut was wrong and it kept falling off my shoulder like some kind of flashdance gear. I had to give that one up. It works on Kathy, but I couldn't pull that one off.
Anyway, to bring this around to some sort of continuity to the board as a whole, I think this sort of creativity and experimentation is and should be part and parcel of the Christian experience. We ascribe to the teachings that set us free. We are the religion with so few rules. We are told that everything is permissible (though not always beneficial). Christians should be at the leading edge of everything, not following. Perhaps that is what the world wants to see, even if they say otherwise. Maybe that is the appeal of the fundamental churches...they aren't afraid to say, "Yes, we're different! We don't hold to that line."
I know I spent many years trying to distance myself from what was recognizably Christian due to the negative stereotyping that brought. I thought, maybe they need to see we aren't all like that. But I often got looks like, "If you're just like me then what the hell do I need your faith for?" But in that time I've learned to step out of the mainstream, and even out of the fringe into areas that are untred. Now after living here where I am allowed to talk of my faith in public with no backlash, I have learned that much of the reason I can expand is my faith. When I return to America, I hope to keep that boldness to say, "because I'm a Christian" with no complex rationalization (and I can rationalize the Spirit right down the toilet...I'm telling you."
Bill, and everyone else, I encourage you to do the same. Take what you believe and claim it for what it is to others. When questioned about your style, your art, your worldview, tell people unapologetically where it comes from. I just recently saw Wind Talkers, which over all I didn't like (too much war and not enough development), but there was this great line where Nicholas Cage says to Adam Beach, "(you won't freeze up again) because your buddy rubbed ash on your head?" To which Beach replies, "yeah, because my buddy rubbed ash on my head." He has this dead serious look that says 'you have no idea of the substance behind what you said.' It was the most powerful line in the movie. The foolish confounding the wise.
: O.K. I'm going to bring this up as sparked by John's recent post on the Kinsey scale and sexual orientation vs. identity. I know that some of us have different views on gender identity and I'm not sure I will go in that direction, as it's a complex and sensitive topic, but I DID want to comment a bit about androgeny from my own perspective. I've never been a fan of androgeny that disrespects the uniqueness of men and women. I won't talk to the specific cases of those who feel that man and woman are not unique. I think they are. I love an androgenous kind of 'look' though. What I mean is I love alot of range in how a man can look and still look like a man or how a woman can look and still look like a woman. I like that kind of androgeny. There is no rulebook for it. I just know when I see it. Sort of like when you experience a moment where you feel truly alive. No one can reproduce that in a test tube. I can't take you to that moment, likewise I can't evoke what I'm seeing. It just has to show forth naturally. I like that kind of androgeny though since for me it points to wonder, creativity and otherworldiness. These are great things. I think of this androgeny as sort of even holy or angelic. It's not an androgeny that negates sex differences, but one which is comfortable with them. It's not a negation of man and woman, but a larger exploration into what it means to be unique and wonderful. That's where I'm going. I'm not too sure about what some people call gender bending or genderf**k. I'm more into androgenous looks as a deepening of masculinity and femininity, not a denial of them.
: Oh yeah I don't think a butch look on a girl has to make her hard or rigid, just like I don't think a pretty boy is necessariliy soft of unmasculine. Look at Brad Pitt for God's sake. Or Jonathan Rhys-Myers. They are more on the pretty side but still very guyish.
: Bill