Posted by cav on March 16, 2005 at 02:22:11:
In Reply to: Re: something new posted by jonvon on March 15, 2005 at 19:17:13:
Not all of the shamanistic aspects of Christianity were taken to the grave, they are just hard to see. Partly because of the reason you alluded to...they don't make much sense and are highly suspect. But a professor once pointed out that there are two types of knowing, the rational and the intellectual. Anything that comes from beyond the intellectual is necessarily perceived as irrational, even if it makes sense to the intellect. The problem is there are no words to describe it. It is largely experiential and the best communicators of these things know that they can only point at it and give you explicit instructions on how to get into a place where you can see it for yourself...or rather intercept it as it washes over you.
That's why the shaman is so important. In tribal settings it is this person who knows how to communicate it, even Jesus himself didn't communicate directly. He used metaphors that illustrate his points. Why did he do this? Could it be the same reason? Think of the rich young ruler...what kind of an answer was that? It doesn't make any sense in any kind of rational way. I've read the long rationalizations of this stuff as well, but I don't buy it. Jesus wasn't trying to allude to some escatalogical system...he was telling the man he had to experience the truth for himself, and he had to move out of himself, his life, to see it.
That's why I love so many of the mystics, and even the modern equivalents in Christianity. I can think of two songs that always hit me deep with this knowledge. One is Lorena McKennett's version of Dark Night of the Soul by John of the Cross. McKennett, decidely not Christian, loved the song because it reflects such deep love for the writer's God in an anything but orthodox way. She evokes that in her music. Also, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds' "Mercy Seat" about a man in the midst of being executed in the electric chair. Look them up and see how they lay with you. I'd love to hear how you think. I can email them to you if you want.
: thanks john, this is more encouraging than you can possibly know. i have to admit i have felt extremely lost, especially just the last few days. i was at a funeral today that was very quiet, subdued, but almost blinding in power. it was as though i faded before it, whitewashed in some way, like i was becoming one with a white wall behind me. like i was disappearing. but dissapearing in a wash of power. a big scary wash that kicked my ass.
: i vacillate sometimes between thinking i finally know who i am, and realizing i am as blind as ever, or moreso than ever. christianity is a tricky one because it is so powerful. there is individual power and then there is something else. something external, but i feel it within.
: am i making less sense now? i have no idea what i'm saying. if you find me in the trees, let me know will you? my breadcrumb trail seems to have been eaten by the birds.
: yes i am angry. there is no place for the shaman in christianity. a few lonely hermits here and there i guess, but who wants to know about them? no one, they are sad stupid losers. they go off and they are silent and they take their wisdom, which is highly suspect anyway, to the grave.